Short Men

I recently watched, with horrified amusement, a tv program about short men who choose to undergo excruciatingly painful surgical procedures (which basically involve breaking their legs and then keeping the bones slightly apart while they mend) in order to become a few inches taller.

Asked why they would choose to undergo such a drastic, and excruciatingly painful, procedure, they said things like “Do you have any idea what it’s like to go through life as a short person? To sit in a chair and only your toes reach the floor, you can’t put your feet flat on the floor? To not be able to reach stuff on the upper shelves in grocery stores? To be unable to drive trucks because you can’t reach the pedals properly? To have people always looking down at you? Do you know what that’s like?”

Well, yes, actually I do. I’m a woman. And in case you haven’t noticed, we’re almost all shorter than almost all of you.

Which suggests that the real problem is that these poor guys can’t take their rightful place over women. As one man, 5’6” before the surgery, said, “I’ll be a better father and husband and son.” Yup. Sure you will.

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36 Responses to “Short Men”

  1. joez Says:

    I am a 5’5 male and you know as well ass I do
    that women generally have an aversion toward short men.
    I agree with you that these surgical procedures are stupid,
    however you magically turned this into a male bashing oppurtunity!

    “Which suggests that the real problem is that these poor guys can’t take their rightful place over women”

    Maybe their real problem is that they cant take any women.
    Chances are you would never date a man who was very short but
    somehow you twist this thing into females being victims.
    The fact that women reject short men en masse is what drove these men
    to such extremes.

    I suppose any short man’s criticisms of your statemens will be written off bo you as a “little man syndrome” but I find yout attitude very insulting and exremely self centered.

  2. Peg Says:

    I’d write a similar piece of female bashing about women who get breast implants in order to become better mothers and wives or to stand out in a crowd better – or to get a man – but it’s already been done and done again.

  3. Peg Says:

    Joez – also, note that ‘getting a woman’ (or in your words, ‘taking a woman’) was not one of the reasons mentioned in my piece. and maybe I’m missing something – how does being taller than a woman make you a better husband and father? I’d really like to hear your answer.

  4. joez Says:

    Taking a woman was a strange typo, I meant getting.
    Most women simply will not date men wo are more than an inch or two
    below average height.

    “Which suggests that the real problem is that these poor guys can’t take their rightful place over women.”

    That is an absurd and condescending claim.
    Average height and tall men have less respect for short men
    if they have any at all and most women willrefuse to date short men.
    I don’t know why you interpret this gentleman’s actions
    as a desire to be taller than women. I would say most guys who wuold
    go to such extremes to become taller do so primarily because the vast majority of women wil not date short men.

    “Being taller than a woman”
    If women were willing to date short men, short men would not have
    such a problem with their height.

    Most women, short, tall, or average will not date short men but you are so caught up in your femnist victim role that you have to make it out to be about being taller than women.
    It blows my mind how women are generally such bitces and always cry victim. A woman cries out in pain as she punces you in the head.

  5. Ed Says:

    Gotta agree with Joez here. Women who live in western society are taught and trained to believe short men are inferior so it’s practically acceptable to denigrate short men. If I had a dime for every woman who disrespected me because of my height, I could almost afford this dangerous surgery. Short man syndrome is a cheap excuse by women to use against short men. The minute we stand up for ourselves against any kind of discrimination, we’re immediately seen as angry, aggresive and Napoleanic. Tall guys who stand up for themselves are fearless, sexy, heartthrobs. So with that being said, the playing field is very far from even and women’s liberation has greatly contributed to this cause. All of you strive for equality with men, but at the same time exclude a large population of us because we don’t stand 6’0 or more. I’d never go for that stupid leg lengthening surgery but I can understand why some guys do. If it means an ounce more respect and not to be stripped of ones manhood because of a lack of height, I understand. The breast implant argument is a very poor comeback and has nothing to do with the issue of height. More often women want bigger breasts and get implants because they compare themselves to other women who are more abundant. Getting bigger breasts won’t give you equal employment or social opportunities unless you’re a stripper or a porn star. Taller men get more respect immediately because this society puts tall and quality together.

  6. Peg Says:

    I agree that women who live in western society are taught and trained to believe short men are inferior. And they’re idiots not to question that.

    I would not call men who stand up against height discrimination angry, aggressive, or Napoleanic. I’m calling the ones who get the surgery in order to “become better husbands and fathers” (the words of the man getting the surgery, not me!) idiots. I still fail to see how being taller makes a man a better husband and father.

    I stand by my suggestion that being shorter than most men is as problematic for women as it is for short men, with regard to status in the world. If women were typically taller than men, I don’t believe the gender difference in power would be as it is today. The very tendency for men to want to be taller than the woman they date, and vice versa, coupled with the tendency on both sides to want the man to be the dominant one, supports this.

    The breast implant point is the same: in both cases people are getting stupid surgery in order to fit society’s definition of what a ‘real’ man/woman should be. Women think such surgery will increase their attractiveness to men, just as men think the lenthening surgery increases their attractiveness to women. And they are probably both right, to the extent they limit themselves to being attractive to stupid men and stupid women. Those are the ones who want a tall man and a chesty woman. And I think you’re wrong about the employment and social opportunity value of big boobs. Small-chested don’t get noticed as much, just as short men don’t.

  7. Adrianne Says:

    I’m a 5’6″ BBW & I’ve always had a special place in my heart for short men. It seems to me from my experience that the short men that I’ve met aren’t attracted to me for some reason; hmmmm, go figure.
    Just saying.

  8. Chris Says:

    Shorter American men, just find a way to leave America. There are better chances in other countries because the women are better minded. What America’s media is doing (brainwashing women) will eventually bite them in the butt. You see, by brushing so many good men aside, American women only have a small number of men to choose from. Here’s the “bust”… There are more women in America then males. What that means is, every “Pedestal Man” (tall guys) will have to have more than one woman, which brings cheating and using women into play. These women will compete for the “Pedestal Men” spreading their legs and dropping to their knees. A lot of these women will become pregnant as well. Even if the man multiple women are competing for decides to marry one, you still have all those other women who had babies from him because they were trying to win him over. Those women are now new single parent mothers. Guess what? It doesn’t stop there. Younger, finer women are growing up every year and they are all out there looking for “Pedestal Men” only. Which means, if the “Pedestal Man” dating pot is empty, these fine women now become what is known as the “Home Wreckers” and they will steal the married “Pedestal Men” away from their wives. Why do you think America’s divorce rate looks so bad? These “Pedestal Men” will have a hard time staying married because they get all the American women spreading their legs to them as soon as they walk into a room because of their height. Now this is where it gets worst for shorter men… It’s bad enough you will never find true love in America and will never smell a women’s scent, but you may also fall victim to a “Hand me down.” What is a “Hand me down” you say? That’s an America women who has now become too old to compete with the younger women for “Pedestal Men.” She is old, worn out and probably have multiple kids from different “Pedestal Men” and don’t forget about fat and out of shape. That’s it…. That is all America is offering perfectly healthy and successful men if they are 5’6″ or shorter. You can get by if you are 5’7″ tall (you just have to build one hell of a body and wear shoes with thick bottoms for added inches). Really, the only option a man at 5’6″ or less has is to get a really ugly worn out American women, or start looking outside the US for none American, none brainwashed women. Remember, it’s not American’s women fault, it’s all the different types of media in America painting the image that taller men are better. Fact is, every man is flesh and bone and there is no superman. US women say “greater security” with a tall men, but that’s BS. If I was a robber and wanted to rob a US woman, it doesn’t matter if she was with a man 7 foot tall weighing 500lbs. If I drop a bullet in his forehead, he’s dead!! “Greater security” is an illusion and further BS America is spitting out to women. I have also seen taller men get their butt kicked in fist fights with a shorter man. Really, skeletal size has nothing to do with anything because it’s just that…. Skeletal size! Kind of retarded if you think about it…blowing a man off because his skeletal size isn’t a certain size, wow. American women will always feel shamed in public with a shorter man, because America has convinced them that women taller than the man looks bad. I know I will be long dead and will not get to see what’s going to happened to America women in the far future, but they will get theirs too. You see, a lot of “Pedestal Men” are getting tired of America women ways. If they lose those men, then they will have no men and then they will get a taste of their own medicine. I wish I could live to see that day. A lot of straight men are going gay because of this dating game BS in America. Some shorter men have even killed themselves because life wasn’t worth living to them. Some have changed their sex. Sometimes I feel this is a plot set up by the leaders of America in order to cut down on the number of babies born each year, because we are over populated as it is. Jobs are tight because of it. One thing we can say, America can’t blame the short men for anything when it comes to bad relationships, single parent mothers, home wreckers, the dating game and bad divorce rate in America. “Pedestal Men” and brainwashed American women are doing it all!

  9. Justin Says:

    I am a 5’6″ male who lives in the central United States. When I was growing up, I was always the shortest male in my class, but it was such a non-issue that I was almost oblivious to my short stature. Even when I graduated high school, my height difference didn’t bother me at all. As a matter of fact, I never even acknowledged the fact that I was the shortest male in my large group of friends. I was completely happy with my height.
    A couple years after my high school graduation, I was engaged to my girlfriend who I had been dating for four years. Everything seemed fine between us until she started talking about how weird she felt about going out in public with me since I was a couple inches shorter than her. She loved to wear high heels, and I never complained about it, but she stopped wearing them because she towered over me when she did. Over time I could see that our height difference really bothered her. She started talking about her concern that our future children might be short like me, and she really didn’t want her children to be “cursed” with this shortness. I thought we had a perfect relationship, but things started falling apart. A year or so into our engagement, I found out she was cheating on me with another man… a man who happened to be about 6’4″ or so. Needless to say, I ended the relationship since she obviously didn’t want to be in a relationship with me.
    A year or so after that, I entered the dating scene again. I went to many different places to meet women, but I started to notice that women naturally gravitated toward taller men. As the years progressed, I realized just how hard I had to work to get a date. If I went to a bar or a club, I felt like I was literally invisible to women. There were so many people who just didn’t take me seriously. I even had girls laugh at me and make jokes about my height. I had to go the extra mile just to have a chance for a girl to get to know me. My height never bothered me… until it started to affect my happiness. I was desperate for advice, so I contacted a friend of mine who was a girl. I asked her about her opinion about “short guys”. She was very sweet about it, but she said that most women are naturally attracted to taller men. She admitted to me that she would much rather be with a tall man than a shorter man. Since then I have spoken to many women about the height issue, and almost all of them agree that tall men are just more desirable. Even other men have more respect for taller men. There are many articles on this subject, so I’ll spare you the details, but I know this to be true. I certainly don’t blame women for preferring taller men. I realize that it is a programmed preference, and it is very difficult to overcome such strong programming by evolution and society.
    I am tolerant of most people, but I have a huge problem with people who make fun of others for their physical traits. I had a boss at my last job who constantly made fun of me for my height. He was 6’3″, and he made sure I never forgot that. He called me “Danny DeVito” and said I was going to be alone for the rest of my life. He was a very, very hateful and hurtful person.
    As the years went by, the issue of my height started to bother me. I tried to stay confident and not let it get to me, but whenever somebody brought up the subject of my height, it really started to hurt.
    I am 32 years old now, and I haven’t dated for five years. I am athletic, and I’m not a bad looking guy, but rejection hurts so bad that I just can’t deal with it anymore.
    I have chosen to pursue my career and physical fitness instead of having a family. I drive a beautiful new Cadillac CTS, I have a large home, and I am a marathon runner. If it wasn’t for my short stature, I may have never sworn off dating… and I wouldn’t have devoted myself to my business and money. Unfortunately, no matter how much money I make, I still have a huge void in my life. I’m alone, and I’m not happy.
    Maybe someday I’ll find the courage to start dating again, but there’s no way to undo the damage that has been done by insensitive, hurtful people.
    Anyone who says that short guys aren’t treated differently is an incredibly ignorant person. My height never bothered me… until other people made it into an issue.

    The only thing I ask from people is that they respect me as a person, and realize that making fun of someone for something they cannot change is very hurtful.

  10. Peg Says:

    Thanks for your story, Justin. I’m not sure I agree with your friend that “most women are naturally attracted to taller men”. Naturally? I think you’re the one who’s right: it’s programmed. And unlike you, I DO blame women, and men, for not rising above their programming. Because, I totally get what you say — “there’s no way to undo the damage that has been done by insensitive, hurtful people”. That’s exactly why I DO blame people for being so stupid, insensitive, and hurtful. And I’d much rather see men like you ‘call’ shallow women on their preferences than get lengthening surgery. That said, isn’t the average height of women in N.A. 5’4″?

  11. Justin Says:

    Hi Peg, thanks for your reply! I have heard that the average height of women in the U.S. is somewhere between 5’4″ and 5’6″. I live in Columbia, Missouri (a college town of about 120,000 people) and there are some really tall girls in this town. I don’t think it’s just my imagination… it’s just strange, lol. As far as judging others by height and appearance… yep, it’s definitely a programmed behavior. It’s in the media: movies, television, music, pop culture, sports, etc… It really is very sad that so many people initially judge others primarily by their outward appearance. That being said, there are still many wonderful people like yourself who look beyond cultural bios and get to know people for their character traits such as intelligence, morals, dreams, desires, and so on. Unfortunately, it seems very difficult to find those people. I also realize that young women (and older women) in the U.S. are judged by equally harsh superficial cultural standards, and it breaks my heart. There is so much peer pressure for young girls to look like the cover of “Teen” magazine, that they think if they don’t measure up to Hollywood’s standards for physical appearance they’re not pretty enough to find a boyfriend. It’s very sad.
    I dated a girl for a while who was very self conscious about her breast size. It bothered her so much that she started saving money to have an augmentation performed. I told her that it was completely up to her whether or not she had the surgery done, but I loved her exactly the way she was… and she was beautiful to me.
    At one point in my life, I actually considered leg-lengthening surgery, but the longer I thought about it the less I liked the idea. I want to be with someone who loves me for exactly who I am. I don’t expect others to change their appearance for me, so I’m not going to change my appearance for someone to accept me.
    By reading the previous posts by other people, it’s easy to tell that this is a very sensitive topic for many people. I’m really glad that there is a forum for us to talk about it so we can share our experiences and ideas. It’s a very good way to encourage others and find encouragement for ourselves! Thank you for your posts!

  12. perrito Says:

    This is what short men must deal with, especially in the dating world. To claim that short women have anywhere near the same problem is ridiculous.

    “Men under 5’8 god don’t love you”

    “I still think short guys should get arrested”

    https://twitter.com/expsnghghtsm It goes on and on like that, but you get the idea.

    “Short guys should just disappear. Ya’ll are of no use to us”

    “Short Guys Make Me Angry, Why The F**k Haven’t You Grown Yet!!”

    “All men should be tall, who would really want a short man”

    “Sorry but I don’t consider short guys real guys”

    “guys under 6 feet disturb me” (btw, over 85% of the US adult male population is under 6′)

    “Anything below 5ft 10 is unacceptable! short men should be sent to live on a remote island so we can prevent further breeding”

    “Short guys should not exist”

    “Why do guys under 5’10 even exist?”

    “Short guys make me laugh , like you’re not a man if you’re under 6’ft”

    “Short men have no purpose in life”

    “Short men are a plague on the world”

    “Short men who think highly of themselves is the most annoying thing”

    “Officially decided no short men in my wedding”

  13. perrito Says:

    Last bit of my post was cut off. Here’s the link.

    https://twitter.com/expsnghghtsm

    What I posted was only a small bit. It goes on and on like that,

  14. ptittle Says:

    you’re in the ‘wrong’ dating world. if a woman judges you by your height, she’s an airhead. run the other way. unless you’re looking for an airhead. or are one yourself.

  15. Anonymous Says:

    women HATE short men. i have noticed this my whole life. they don’t just dislike them, they are openly disgusted and repulsed by them. women will date fat men, blind men, and even disabled men before they date a short man. and NOTHING can compensate for being short, not even money. if you’re a man under 5’6, you will never, ever, EVER get laid. period. you may as well just accept that you will be alone forever or kill yourself now to save yourself the pain.

  16. Anonymous Says:

    Anonymous, why do you think that is?

  17. Roy Says:

    “I stand by my suggestion that being shorter than most men is as problematic for women as it is for short men”

    You can stand by it but it’s wrong, women look down on short men in more ways than one – especially as potential dates – you can call these women idiots but they are the vast majority and we have to live in the world the way it IS, not the way you think it should be.

  18. Peg Says:

    Roy, I should’ve been clearer. I maintain that in our society, in which respect and authority is accorded by height, height is more problematic for women than it is for men. And that is because on average women are shorter than men. So the average woman is shorter than most men and half of the women; hence, she will be accorded less respect/authority by about 75% of the people she meets. The average man, however, is shorter than only half of the men; hence, he will be accorded less respect/authority by only 25% of the people he meets. So height is more of a problem for more women.

    However, in the narrow context of dating in Canada, the U.S., and possibly several or most European countries, which seems to be your focus, the relatively short man will be at a disadvantage only if he is shorter than about 5’4″ (the average height of women).

    And I reiterate it’s a problem only if you’re wanting to be ‘looked up to’ metaphorically speaking — by idiot women who do that according to whether or not they can do so physically speaking.

    I was recently in the company of a man who mentioned several times his being on the small side; to be honest, his height didn’t even register consciously until the third time he’d said it. And then, I realized that I’d actually liked being able to look him in the eye instead of having to ‘look up to’ him (when I have to do that physically to a person, man or woman, I have to keep ‘fighting’ not to do that in other respects); it made it that much easier to see him as an equal and not some ‘overlord’ I constantly had to one, prove myself against and two, prove him unworthy of that rank.

  19. Dane Says:

    Peg, while I do agree that short women have it worse than short men in the business world, short men have it MUCH worse than anyone else in the dating world. I am 5’7″ (5’8″ in shoes), single, and have a been able to build a great, toned physique. I’m young, very successful for my age, and have a great job. Unfortunately, generally women still don’t want me. It seems that even though I am 3-4 inches taller than most women, they STILL typically consider me too short and are not afraid to say it to my face! Wow! I have heard the line “Sorry I usually only date guys that are a bit taller than you” more times than I can even remember. It’s absolutely demoralizing to know that most women would rather date an unsuccessful, low-life, non-physically fit guy that is 6 feet tall than a great 5’7″ guy like me. It blows my mind.

    Fortunately, my dating life hasn’t been a complete failure. I have had a few decently attractive girlfriends, but I just have to fight much harder to get them than any guy that is 5’10” and above.

    I feel HORRIBLE for any guy that is 5’5″ and below. If I am having this many problems at 5’7″, I can’t imagine how bad it must be when you’re the height of the average woman.

    From my observations, male height (barefoot) vs dating discrimination goes something like this:

    -6’0″ or above: Most people don’t realize how tall 6’0″ actually is. Most of those guys that you see that you think are 6ft tall are actually 5’10”-5’11”. If you’re a true 6 footer, even the most attractive women will drool over your height.
    -5’10”-5’11″: Tall enough for 75% of women. Many women will love your height, but some would prefer you to be just a bit taller. At this height, you absolutely have nothing to complain about. You will have access to many women.
    -5’8″-5’9″: This is where you begin to see some minor problems. Only tall enough for ~50% of women. Still, 50% of women is a HUGE dating pool. Women will not drool over your height, but you can still manage to pass the height test for a decent portion of attractive women.
    -5’6″-5’7″: Significant problems. Only tall enough for about 25% of women. 95% of attractive (i.e. non-fat with good hygiene and decent looks) women will not date you because of all the attention they receive from the tall guys. This is not a good place to be, but there is a small glimmer of hope. The only good thing about being this height is that you are still taller than most women, so while they might not be attracted to you, they will respect you to some extent.
    -5’5″ and below: A guy this short has almost zero chance of finding an attractive woman to date. Most likely, he will have to settle. Even worse, whoever he settles with will be “settling” for a short guy as well. At this height, women (and men) consistently make jokes about your manhood, which can be emotional torture for a guy in the long run. Being this short is the worst thing that can happen to a man (other than some horrible defect or life-altering chronic disease).

    I have had this discussion with women before, and they all say the same thing. Usually they feel more protected with a taller man and believe that it increases their femininity. Total bogus, but thats what they say. I’ve even had a girl that was 5’11” and about 160 pounds tell me that she feels like she is stronger than men that are shorter than her and that other women feel this way too. Can women really be this dumb? I weigh about the same as her, but would absolutely destroy her (and any other woman) in any sort of physical altercation. Men are MUCH stronger pound for pound than women, so that logic is just ridiculous. They basically will say anything to justify their disdain of short men, when in reality there is no justification. Short man inferiority is a false stereotype that this country has poisoned us with.

    It’s unfortunate that height matters so much in American society. American Women have been poisoned by the media and have become the most shallow, attitude-filled, entitled women on the planet. My suggestion for all short guys is to move to any non-westernized country. You will find that the women are much more accepting of any height, and much more kind in general. If you are a short guy, avoid American, British, and Australian women at all costs.

  20. Peg Says:

    Up to your second last paragraph, you’re missing the point. The desire for the man to be taller than the woman is rooted in our sexist patriarchy. What the fuck does height have to do with anything that’s important?

    (Why do you want women who advocate what you yourself think is bogus, women who are really that dumb?)

    (Dunno about that MUCH stronger pound for pound; a lot of that weight is NOT muscle.)

  21. Dane Says:

    Height has nothing to do with anything that is important. It really doesn’t. Personally, I prefer a woman to be around my height. I would love to date a woman that is between 5’5″-5’8″ so that we would be eye to eye, but that just isn’t going to happen easily in this country. My dating pool in America is limited to women 5’2″ and below (BECAUSE I STILL HAVE TO BE THREE INCHES TALLER WHEN THEY ARE IN HEELS!….*SIGH*). Even if they are 5’2″ and below, they often still consider me to be short…just blatant stupidity.

    I have said to hell with American women. I spent six months in Europe (before I knew how shallow American women were compared to other women) and was SHOCKED that women did not seemed to be turned off as much by my height and were much more interested in getting to know me as a person rather than putting up an anti short-guy bitch shield. I’m currently saving money for a while to move there semi-permanently.

    And yes, as far as physicality goes, men dominate women pound per pound. Men naturally have a body composition with more muscle and less fat than a woman, pound per pound. On top of that, they are much faster and more coordinated than women as well. A 150 lb, 5’10’ woman (even if she lifts weights) stands no chance against the average 150 lb short man. It’s just a fact that women who claim to want to feel “feminine and protected” have no comprehension of. Which brings me to the point that yes, even short guys can protect women as well. Short muscular guys will beat skinny or average tall guys in a fight 90% of the time, all other things being equal. Now, tall MUSCULAR guy vs short muscular guy? Well, in that case tall guy will usually have the weight advantage.

  22. Peg Says:

    I don’t think it’s just American women though. I think American men are just as brainwashed into the gender binary and all the polarized values that come with it.

    As for your last paragraph, I wonder if you’re comparing fit men with unfit women.

  23. Dane Says:

    Just from my experiences (six months in Romania, with trips to Greece, England, Germany, France, and Russia. Also a separate two month trip to Asia.): Yes, women in other countries DO care about height, however, for them it is NOT the deciding factor. To non-western foreign women, height is attractive, but they will gladly date a short guy if he has other good attributes. A short man can walk up to a foreign woman and she will gladly talk to him and give him a chance most of the time. American women act as if it is a felony if a short man is interested in them. The majority of American women that will accept a short man are simply desperate and unattractive. Even then, they HATE that he is short, but they don’t think they can get a tall guy.

    From my last post: No, I’m talking any man vs any woman. The fittest of women (that don’t use male hormone-based steroids) will have a very hard time taking down even the most unfit of men. Any man that is anything other than totally unfit will easily take down any woman, no matter how strong she thinks she is. That’s really irrelevant to this conversation though and the point is that the complete disrespect that women inherently show short men (for not being a “real man”) is completely unjustifiable based on this fact.

  24. Peg Says:

    Well, no, the point (my point, of my post) is that men who insist on the necessity of being taller (via surgery or dating only women shorter than him) are accepting, endorsing, perpetuating sexism and patriarchy.

    My secondary point, apparently missed even more often, is that the height thing (according greater respect to those who are taller) advantages not only taller men over shorter men, but most men over most women.

  25. Dane Says:

    Men who insist on being taller than the woman do show height discrimination, I agree. Fortunately for women, not all men insist on being taller and those that do only want to be at least an inch or two taller. So the problem for women is not nearly as bad and non-fat women below 6 ft tall get hit on all the time. The result is that 99% of women who take care of themselves (i.e Don’t get fat like unhealthy pigs) have plenty of options to choose from.

    Now compare that to the height discrimination by women: 90%+ of women have an absolute requirement that the man be taller and the majority of those women want him to be AT LEAST 8 INCHES taller. I have NEVER met a man that required his women to be nearly a foot shorter. Not once. This leaves guys that are 5’7″-5’8″ with very few dating options (unless they have MANY other attractive qualities) and guys 5’6″ and below with literally no good dating options. They get nothing but scraps. I am a living example of this. I thank my god every single day that I was born with an athletic body type, intelligence, and a moderately attractive face. I work very hard in the gym to maintain my physique as well and have a pretty good personality. Even with all of these qualities, my height (5’7″) still puts a huge damper on my dating options. It truly sucks to put in so much effort and still get below average results with women while tall guys don’t even have to try. But I guess it is what it is.

    The dating market in America is truly screwed up and completely in favor of the women. If a woman wants to be attractive for men, all she has to do is be slender and there will be plenty of men that want her. She has a CHOICE. Either she decides that she likes food more than men and gets fat. Or she decides that she likes men more than food and stays slim and gets attention. A man does not have a choice. He is either born tall and has women drooling over him, or he is born short and will have to work incredibly hard to have any chance of attracting any woman. It’s unfortunate, and it is a problem caused by American women’s complete obsession with height.

    Compare this to other countries. In other countries, the women are not nearly as fat as in America, so even the slim women must compete to get male attention. Thus the attractive women are much more friendly and open to any man because the competition for men is so much more fierce. It’s an even playing field for both the men and women in many other countries. In America, the attractive women have their pick of the litter and ALWAYS choose the tall guy, even if he is a fat pig. Just a horrible problem for short men because they are left with nothing but fat women.

    As far as the business world goes, yes men do have an advantage over women, as it should be. At some point women must accept that it is a man’s role to be the provider for the family, and it is the woman’s role to be the nurturer for the children. I don’t necessarily have a problem with women in executive positions, but I think that it is sad that women in America take more pride in their career than raising their own children and nurturing their husband, the man that does everything he can to provide for them. Call me traditional, but I believe in gender roles. We are born MEN or WOMEN for a reason. Take pride in your femininity.

    Outside of the job world, women have every advantage over men in America, so no woman has any right to complain about the one advantage that men have over women.

  26. Peg Says:

    “As far as the business world goes, yes men do have an advantage over women, as it should be.” As it SHOULD be? On what basis??

    “At some point women must accept that it is a man’s role to be the provider for the family, and it is the woman’s role to be the nurturer for the children.” Says who? Again, on what basis do you make these claims?

    I call you a lot worse than “traditional”. “Believe in gender roles” – what exactly does that mean? Believe they’re necessary? Believe they’re good? Believe they’re biologically determined?

    “We are born MEN or WOMEN for a reason.” Says who?

    Take a course or read a book on sexism, patriarchy, gender roles, then come back.

    “Outside of the job world, women have every advantage over men in America…” Right. That’s why we’re raped so often. That’s why the booming porn industry sexualizes the degradation and humiliation of women.

  27. Dane Says:

    You’re obviously a brainwashed woman with feminist beliefs, so it is pointless to argue with you. Feminism is the reason the problem we have been discussing even exists. But I will say this: Women in in America have it better than women in any other country in the world, and they have it much better than men in this country. Sure, men get better jobs. But that is it. And you aren’t “raped so often”.

    Look up any article about how nice you American ladies have it and come back. I surely am not going to write it down because it has been discussed many times.

    Yes, gender roles are biologically determined. Unfortunately, the feminist movement has brainwashed women into wanting to be men. Go to any non-feminist country and the women are PROUD to be delicate and feminine and nurture their families. Sure some of them have good jobs too, but family comes first. Women in America associate that with being a “weak” woman. American women just want jobs and power and don’t give a **** about their children or their family compared to their career. American women think being “strong, bossy, and independant” is some sort of attractive trait. The only men that agree with that assessment are the ones that have never been with a foreign woman.

    Thankfully I will be out of this country in the next few years and will never have to deal with height, money, and career obsessed feminazi women again.

  28. Peg Says:

    I have feminist opinions, yes. Well-supported. So not brainwashed. Read Dale Spender and John Stoltenberg for starters.

    Feminism is not the reason men want to be taller than women (the problem we’ve been discussing); sexism is.

    Yes, in very many ways women in America have it better than women in any other country (except for the Scandinavian countries); though there are proportionately fewer Women in American government than even in Rwanda and South Africa http://www.ipu.org/wmn-e/classif.htm).

    Do you really deny that women are raped far more often than men? 1 in 4 compared to 1 in 10. http://thehathorlegacy.com/rape-statistics/

    Explain how biology determines that women should cook the food and men should repair things? Explain how biology determines that women should be pediatrician assistants and men should be pediatricians?

    I do not want to be a man. God no. I do most definitely not want my genitalia outside nor do I want that much testosterone coursing through my body.

    Have you considered the possibility that it is those PROUD women you describe who have been brainwashed? After all, many of them have even been denied an education beyond elementary school.

    I don’t think that women in American consider nurturing children to be weak; they just everyone, men and women alike, to be able to choose what they dedicate their lives to.

  29. ptittle Says:

    You know what’s interesting. (Well no, it’s not really interesting, it’s boring. Because it happens so often.) You’re here on my site. You see that I’ve written several textbooks that are used in universities and colleges. You see that I’ve published a few articles in philosophy journals. You see that I have three degrees. And yet you immediately jump to ‘You’re brainwashed, there’s no point in arguing with you, I surely know better that you.’ What arrogance. That alone disproves your point. (By proving that we do indeed live in a patriarchy, in a sexist world in which males feel such privilege…)

  30. Dane Says:

    I’ll try to keep this more civil.

    You have published articles and have an education. Good for you. I’ve earned a Master’s Degree in Engineering from Stanford. Big whoop. Your degrees mean nothing to me. Feminism has ruined American women. They are a lost cause, and thousands of men are traveling overseas to find feminine women.

    I find it funny that you keep bringing up rape. Do you really believe that 1/4 women get raped? You have to be off your rocker to believe those stats. I know about 50 women. None of them have ever been raped. Perhaps in areas of high crime that is true, but not outside of those boundaries. If RAPE is the biggest problem for women in this country, then you have proved my point. I would love to be in a country where the only thing I had to worry about in life was the slight (<2%) possibility of rape.

    Women are not held accountable for anything in this country and are put on a pedestal. Attractive woman has a one night stand while drunk? She can claim rape and ruin the man's reputation. The courts are on her side. Unattractive man tries to talk to a woman at work? She can slander him for being "creepy" and claim sexual harassment. Divorce? Woman wins every time. The list goes on and on and on. Women can get away with any and complain about anything and people will agree with them. As soon as a man complains about anything, he is told to shut up and "be a man". This is the American state of mind.

    Women now have great job opportunities and can get any job that a man can get (other than business executive/politician type jobs), and yet you feminists still want more. It's pathetic.

    Back to the height thing:

    Women in America can wear makeup/high heels, get breast implants, and do many other things to enhance their appearance. Without doing all of these things to enhance their appearance, they feel insecure and don't feel retty. In addition, I hear women ALL THE TIME say that they want to feel safe with a tall man and that it makes her look so cute standing next to the tall guy. Do you know what this screams? INSECURITY.

    Let's consider the flipside: If a man does ANYTHING that even gives the slightest hint that he might be insecure (like wear elevator shoes), he is seen as an insecure, unattractive loser. Men in America must literally be perfect in every way in the eyes of a woman for him to be attractive to her.

    You might not believe it, but this is a result of feminism. Women can have ultra high dating standards and prance around like a little princess in this country and get away with it and be accountable for absolutely nothing. They have been given the key to the city and social rules protect them from any sort of criticism. Men are held accountable for everything and told not to complain (because that is "insecure and unattractive").

    This is what short men have to deal with every day of their lives:

    -Less respect by fellow men
    -People don't listen to you when you speak unless you exude an extreme amount of self-confidence
    -If you are self-confident, you are just overcompensating for your lack of height
    -Women do not think of you as a real man.
    -The women that are attracted to you will leave you in a heartbeat for a taller guy (this has happened to me)
    -Constant rejection
    -Fewer job opportunities than tall men (I have been fortunate to avoid this problem, luckily)
    -If you complain about any of this, you are thought of as an insecure loser

    The worst part is that we can do NOTHING about it. I can't just grow another 5 inches. I am a self-confident man, but I refuse to live in a country where I have a significant disadvantage in every aspect of my life due to height. That is why I will be moving to a country with a lower average height.

    I look forward to leaving this horrible country soon. I have experienced how amazing foreign women are and there is no going back now. What's even better is that they typically do not care nearly as much about height. I can't wait! :)

    "Have you considered the possibility that it is those PROUD women you describe who have been brainwashed? After all, many of them have even been denied an education beyond elementary school."

    False. Not sure where you are getting this idea. Women in Europe/Asia have plenty of education opportunities, but still maintain their femininity. They typically just want a good, loving man that can help provide for the family. This keeps them happy. Meanwhile, they keep him happy by staying slim and supporting him. They put a higher emphasis on raising the children rather than obsess over their career like American women. That being said, many of them still have good jobs.

    American women do not care about their man. They only care about the high social status they will obtain by having a tall husband with a great job. After they get that, they leach off of him and disregard his needs. When they get tired of him, they divorce him and take half of his earnings and all of their own earnings.

  31. Peg Says:

    Why don’t my degrees mean anything to you?

    re your para re rape: investigate Research Methodology 101 to find out why your anecdotal experience doesn’t trump the studies. (Plus, don’t you think most women would be reluctant to tell a man, especially one they’re not close to, that they’ve been raped?)

    re your next para: http://www.pegtittle.com/im-too-drunk-no-im-not.html

    “Men in America must literally be perfect in every way in the eyes of a woman for him to be attractive to her.” I think a lot of women feel the same way. That’s why they get the implants, wear make-up, etc. etc. And you’re right. Insecure. But what’s your point?

    I hold women accountable. I can’t stand the princesses. They are an embarrassment to the rest of us.

    This is what women have to deal with every day of their lives:

    -Less respect by all men (except for their body)
    -People don’t listen to you when you speak unless you exude an extreme amount of self-confidence
    -If you are self-confident, you are just overcompensating for your sex
    -Men do not think of you as a person.
    -Constant dismissal, mockery, insult (“you throw like a girl” – what we ARE is an insult)
    -Fewer job opportunities than men
    -If you complain about any of this, you are thought of as a feminazi

    You criticize the very feminine ‘I want a strong, tall man to protect me’ and yet you’re going to another country to find a woman who has maintained her femininity. Don’t you see the contradiction there?

    You criticize women who aren’t happy with your body (you’re too short) and yet you expect a woman to keep you happy “by staying slim”. Don’t you see the hypocrisy there?

    Yeah, I think the divorce rules are awful. What’s mine is mine and what’s yours is yours. Why I never married. And I could never be a kept woman; I figure I should pay my own way through life. Guess I’m not feminine.

  32. Dane Says:

    “You criticize the very feminine ‘I want a strong, tall man to protect me’ and yet you’re going to another country to find a woman who has maintained her femininity. Don’t you see the contradiction there?”

    No, I do not see the contradiction. There is a huge difference. Ability to protect has very little correlation to height. A man’s power (strength x speed) is the most important attribute in a physical altercation, all other things being equal. Shorter guys are naturally faster/quicker than tall guys, while tall guys naturally have a bit more muscle mass. Ever wonder why some of the best fighters ever (Mike Tyson, Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris) are average height? It is because the have significant muscle mass but STILL have the speed and quickness of a short guy. Most women are too stupid to realize that short men can be VERY capable of knocking the snot out of tall guys. A quick, muscular short guy is a pit bull that most tall guys will not want fight.

    I have just justified why being short literally means NOTHING as far as ability to protect or do anything else. The thought of “only a tall,strong man can protect me and make me feel feminine” is NOT feminine…it’s stupid. That’s what it is.

    If a girl just simply isn’t physically attracted to short guys, then okay, I can buy that. But if she tried to provide ANY type of stupid justification (“short guys can’t protect me”, “short guys don’t make me feel feminine”, “I don’t look good next to a short guy”)…then she is just ignorant. THAT is the problem. The reason that so many short guys complain about this is that a huge portion of women have been brainwashed to believe all of these misconceptions about short guys. This leaves us with extremely limited dating options. The best option is to head to another country where women aren’t so ignorant.

    You criticize women who aren’t happy with your body (you’re too short) and yet you expect a woman to keep you happy “by staying slim”. Don’t you see the hypocrisy there?

    Is this a joke? Being short is healthy and natural (just like being tall or average height). Being fat is unhealthy and greatly reduces your physical capabilities. Being fat causes MANY health related issues as well. There are many legitimate reasons to not be attracted to fat people. The ONLY legitimate reason to not be attracted to short guys is that is just isn’t physically attractive. The issue is that many woman have completely illegitimate reasons for not being attracted to short men.

  33. Peg Says:

    I agree with your claim that short guys can fight (though I’d emphasize the ‘all other htings being equal’ – weaponry). I agree that the women you’re talking about are irrational. The point I was making was that your were criticizing their ‘buying into’ their gender conditioning (they don’t want a tall dark handsome man b/c it’s rational; they want that b/c that’s what they’ve been conditioned to want and they haven’t examined their conditioning…), and yet you yourself seem to have bought YOUR gender conditioning (to want a feminine woman, someone who wants someone to protect her, someone who wants to build her life around husband and kids). That’s the contradiction I was talking about. Similarly with the short/fat point; you’re missing the role of GENDER CONDITIONING. Which was rather the point of the post in the first place.

    You want to be someone’s Prince Charming, you’d better expect a Princess.

  34. Peg Says:

    You claim “gender roles are biologically determined”. Please give me citations to the research that supports this. I have no ‘delicacy’ chromosome; I have no ‘family before job’ biochemistry. Etc. I think for any further discussion between us to be fruitful, we should sort that out. Gender is not the same as sex. We are born male and female, but we are conditioned big-time from the moment we’re born to be masculine and feminine. What books have you read about this? (About gender and sex.) Because I’m not going to spend my time educating you on these issues.

  35. 2Short Says:

    Hi
    My name is Bob and i am nineteen and i hate my height because ny age and my height are way off. My height has been a nightnare for me and especially now since i am older and dating sucks for me. This story happened to me last year. My parents asked me if i could help a couple that had a 12yo daughter to watch her for them because they were going to be gone overnight and it be easy with good pay. So i said ok and for me to be there before 3:00pm when their daughter get dropped off at home by the scgool bus. So i got there at 2:30 and both parents were tall the mother giggled when she saw me i guess because i stand 4′ 4″ tall and she stood around 6’0″ tall anyway she showed me around and the spare bedroom where i would sleep and they took off and i went into the. livingroom and turned on the tv at about 3:15pm i heard someone enter the house through the kitchen and a girls voice yelled i’m home i yelked back i was in the livingroom. She came into room and i see a girl that is supposed to be 12yo but she is like her mother meaning like around 6’0″ tall she then sits next to me and looks me up and down and says wow your feet don’t reach the ground and i never seen anyone sit on the couch and their feet not reach the floor mine do see. i said yea well i am short she said oh then she said would you mind standing up i said whatever and i stood up and faced her she wow and she stood up and said cool how old are you i said 18 then she said how tall are you i said i stand 4’4″ tall she started laughing and said well i am 12yo and i stand 6’0″ tall and she took her hand and put it on top of my head and said OMG top of your head stops at my bellybutton and your here to watch me? She said maybe i have to watch you. huh then she said how much do you weigh i said don’t worry about my weight she then bent down and put her arms around me and stood back up holding me and she saidcyour lite you don”t weigh anything then she said this is cool i never picked up a boy that was five years older then me and was so small like you are your like holding. a Baby and you can’t do anything to stop me either huh. i was so embarrased.

  36. Peg Says:

    Bob, I hope you don’t get the leg-lengthening surgery. Instead, I hope you try to find a woman who’s not so superficial and shallow as to think that height matters AND who’s strong enough to stand against the grain, who’s okay with a partner who’s shorter than her. (Be forewarned, though, if she’s strong enough to go against the gender-shit that ‘My boyfriend/husband should be taller than me’, she’s probably also going against other gender-shit grain like ‘I should totally devote myself to my kids and husband, period.’)


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